Meeting the Neighbors In All the Wrong Ways

Small town living as I remember it involved neighbors bringing over apple pies when you moved in but honestly I am sure that is a fantasized version of how things went even 40 years ago. We were both a little surprised though that after two months of living in the house we had only met one neighbor. Turns out he was also our Fed Ex delivery guy and it was super sweet when he made a point to say hello while making a delivery. I felt vaguely guilty about how much work we had created for him in the last month with all our Amazon purchases, (yes I know its his job but still!) and didn’t enjoy the meeting as much as I could.

Part of the reason we moved so far out was we didn’t want close neighbors but still you want to know who is around you, just in case. I even mentioned it to my new hair dresser in Mt Sterling (side note seeing the same hair dresser two times in a row was a novel treat) and her response led me to believe that the country folk friendliness myth was just that. Anyway a couple of days later we were pleasantly surprised when we got an invitation to a neighbor’s annual back yard “block party” (country mile party?) in the mail. The neighbor not only put a real stamp on it but also added a note and said we hadn’t met but wanted to make sure we were included. That’s when I learned that the small crossroads right down the street (can’t even call it a town) was it’s own unincorporated community with about 100 people considered part of it and I was one of them! It even had its own Facebook group I learned later but I will get to that.

Everything was going right along and we had 4 blessed nights with no goats escapes, when we were on the phone with Lee’s aunt and he saw the goats across the street! Yes that’s right. What ensued was one of the most insane evenings of my life which is funny if you weren’t me in the scenario. The goats started going down the road, which gets a fair amount of traffic and we were chasing them. They can run pretty fast when they want to and there was no way like in a pasture to get in front of them. Finally I stopped cars in both directions and had 4 people trying to catch the goats. Two were neighbors and ultimately one (who was an electrician and had a work van) popped the mom into the back of the van and drove slowly back to our house while the baby followed.Yes it was funny, but honestly I was scared to death someone would get in an accident and country road or not people drive fast on it. The momma goat refuses to be on a lead and the baby wont let anyone touch her at all so it wasn’t great. We got them home and immediately went and bought twenty more 16′ long and 50″ high cattle panels. We managed to get them in our truck by hanging them over the top and Lee’s plan was to install them the next day. We know the gates we have are a weak point so we also planned on adding more snow fencing and lowering the gates a little.

The next day went fine and I checked on them routinely. At 3:30 I even went out and gave everyone a watermelon treat and things looked pretty chill. Finally at 5:30 I went out for the evening feed and the goats were gone. I don’t just mean out of the gate I mean gone. So I drove all the roads and ultimately hat in hand asked our neighbors if they had seen them. Our neighbor across the street was mowing for several hours and he was in his early 30’s and very nice but had not seen them. He remembered them from yesterday though! Then I drove down to the neighbor next door with the 35 acres and explained I thought it was possible they were on his property. He also had a young family and definitely could relate to animals getting out. We gave him our phone number and then went back home and watched Clarkson’s Farm (available on Prime Video) which is our new favorite show because it proves we aren’t the only idiots.

At 9pm we got a call from our neighbor and they said they saw on the small community Facebook group someone had found the goats. That’s how I learned we had a Facebook group. Lisa (who also works from home) only had a name so she got on the State auditor website and found and address it was .1 miles down the road and there we met another neighbor Ruth who had a huge farm with our goats in her barn. Ruth was also very nice and told us her neighbor found them on the road and had assumed that they were hers and put them in her barn. I could see why because she had goats, sheep, pigs, rabbits, a mini horse, and dogs all over her property. It was controlled chaos in the best way and she obviously knew what she was doing. As another side note while we were there we saw goats jumping over 4 foot fences with relative ease and when we asked why they didn’t wander off she stated because they knew that’s where the food was. Since we are feeding the Momma goat the best quality hay and corn we can find and have beautiful pasture I didn’t know what to say to that. Honestly I think she is just trying to get to a bigger herd, which I don’t have.

After receiving some more helpful advice we got the goats home (thankfully we had picked up a large dog cage at an estate sale and we got our truck back from the shop) so we had a way to transport them. We both knew though that something had to change so after a sleepless night I decided to call the man who originally sold the pair to me. I know he is under no obligation to help but my plan was to pick up two more babies for my birthday on Saturday so after explaining the situation I asked if I could bring the Mom back. I should have gone with three babies from the beginning but in a misguided attempt to have some protection for the goats I had insisted on a Mom and a baby. I like the Mom very much but we can’t keep doing this and in my mind at least she is obviously looking for something. She also has some very bad habits that I don’t have the time or energy to train out of her but with babies hopefully we can start fresh. This isn’t unlike getting a puppy versus a full grown dog and since I do work 50 hours a week I just don’t have the time to put into her.

With some reluctance the seller agreed but we had to go that evening because his remaining goats were going to auction Friday. That was no problem because my intent was to leave them locked in their stall all day anyway while Lee fixed the fencing. The dog cage (on our wagon to transport) is already down there so this would be relatively easy. I truly had a sleepless night over sending this goat to an auction, but practicality won out and we loaded The Momma (notice I stopped calling her by name. There is a reason people don’t name farm animals) into a large dog crate we got at an estate sale and placed it on our wagon and put her in the back of the truck. Her baby went crazy bleating so it was all pretty dramatic, and we loaded her into the back of the truck by the window, Lee strapped the crate down and off we went.

The seller is about 20 minutes away and a really nice guy Rob who invited us to tour his small farm. I wish I could show you picture of these setups but that’s not really cool so let me try and describe it. He has two different small pastures and a couple of mixed barn areas with goats, cows, two HUGE hogs, and chickens. His animals (except for the pigs) all grazed together, and Edith was thrilled when she was let loose into her home. He had isolated the three babies (with one Mom) in a side room and after some difficulty we caught the three and put them together in a cage.

One thing we have noticed is most people have a hodge podge of building structures. What they spend their money on is fencing and after our experience I understand why. The previous owners spent their money on the building, but the fencing is a mix. You know that saying “good fences make good neighbors”, I always thought that was kind of weird but now I totally get it. Animals on the loose can cause all kinds of destruction to crops, landscaping, and gardens and it’s our primary responsibility to keep these animals on our land as much as humanely possible.

We got home and saw our baby was out and in the chicken area. Thankfully she had stayed close and we put the other three in the stall with her. Immediately two of the new ones got out through a REALLY small hole in the fencing. When I say hole I mean it is part of the fence design and we were both amazed they could wriggle through it, so we piled up straw bales all around to get through the night and went into the house. We have a camera to monitor and the baby threw herself repeatedly against the bars trying to get out but was locked in thankfully. We went out to check them one more time and then went to bed.

The next morning Lee woke up and went to get snow fencing (not always easy to find this time of year but Menards a local hardware chain we love had it) and then he put that along all the new fence he had just put up the day before. I have to say Lee has put everything on hold to help me fix this problem which is the only thing that make it possible with me working full time. The snow fence stops them from getting through the small holes and has worked on both the chickens and the goats by the way. Also way cheaper and easier than chicken wire although we know it wont really be a predator deterrent. Anyways, Lee got all that up and we were finally able to get them out of the stall. That was of paramount importance because it was going to be another humid 90 degree day and we wanted them to be able to get out of the stall.

Finally the goats can run free and although they are testing their fence so far no escapes. In some places we have triple fencing and if that doesn’t get it done I don’t know what will. The babies are super cute and Lee named them Jane, Paula Georgie, and Ringa; The Bleatles. That goes really well with my Spice Girls chicken group. I’m really hoping they all settle in quickly so I can start working with them and I even ordered a cow bell to train them to. Let’s face it everyone needs more cow bell in their life!

Jack loves them. Light brown is Georgie (original baby), Dark brown is Jane, white with spot on her butt is Ringa, and white with no spot is Paula!

We very much appreciate your support of our blog.

  • You can purchase the ebook telling the story of how we became full-time RVers.
  • You can purchase our recipe book filled with 80 recipes we have cooked in our RV and taste tested by Lee himself. You can purchase the kindle or paperback version on Amazon or buy the Apple version on Itune

First Time Having Goats (Plural)

I named the blog post with (Plural) because a very long time ago when we were a young couple with small kids we rented a small house on my dad’s hobby farm. My father is notoriously difficult to buy presents for and while living there I told him if he didn’t tell me what he wanted for Father’s Day I was buying him a goat. This was a spur of the moment joke but then it took legs and long story short ended up with Lee and I driving to an animal auction in Delaware and buying a male baby goat for $25 which was $15 dollars cheaper than the females. I have never seen my Dad laugh as hard as he did when we presented him with that goat but then the goat became my problem.

Knowing nothing about goats we ended up chaining it to a large dog house which we moved from weed patch to weed patch. The goat also ended up getting big enough that he could drag the dog house. Yes I know not great but I was pretty young. The goat ultimately thrived and developed enough affection for me that it started attacking Lee when he got near it. Thankfully Dad knew some people with horse farms and after 1-1/2 years the goat went to hang out with some horses. So my experience with Rambo (my 12 year old brother at the time named it) was a mixed bag and honestly I never thought about getting a goat after that.

When we bought the small farm though I wanted a purposeful animal that I could raise. I absolutely love goats milk lotion and the thought of making my own sounded fantastic. Plus, female goats are somewhat easier to manage, and the Norwegian Dwarfs are pretty small. So, with minimal information I started looking for goats, but they were often $400 for a pair. You can’t just get one because they are herd animals and the females are still almost double the cost of the males. Craiglist is absolutely a great place to search for goats but not only did I need two I didn’t have a clue how to transport them. I thought maybe when we got closer to the winter the prices might go down and as you can see from the previous post I have been very focused on the chickens. I did however clear out the stall the former owners used for alpacas, just in case.

I also got this idea that I wanted to try and make my own hay and after a ton of research we got a lawn sweeper from my dad and gather up some clippings. The deal is that as long as it is not chemically treated it can be used but since it wasn’t specifically planted for the goats with alfalfa it’s definitely not their favorite. Long story short gathering hay is a lot of work unless you have tons of expensive equipment, and the goats don’t like it much. For $8 a bale I will just buy it from a neighbor farmer so that’s what I am going to do in the future. Still glad I tried it and we have a pasture specifically for hay so in the future I know it’s a possibility.

So I had an empty stall, 20 or so bales of leftover straw from the previous owners, tons of pastures and weeds but no goats. Finally, I saw an ad for a person who was downsizing his herd and was offering baby goats for $100. That was a bargain, but these goats were barely weaned and I was nervous about just having babies. Finally, I asked for a Mom and her female baby and he was willing to deliver them to me. Rob was a super nice guy and the price was right so on Sunday morning he drove over. The goats were really cute and after some discussion we loaded the crate on the wagon and took them back to the pasture.

I was excited and had a list of questions to ask Rob provided by my friend Deb. She raised Nigerian Dwarfs in California when her kids were in 4H and thankfully I finally had someone I could talk to I could trust. Turns out the internet is no more reliable than it was about chickens or RVing for that matter, but Deb can at least share her personal experience. Turns out the goats were due for worming, had never had shots, were never milked, weren’t trained to a halter, and worst of all had been corn fed. I figured for $100 this was what I was going to get and since they looked healthy and were friendly I figured I would just go for it. Unfortunately, while we were talking to Rob the goats escaped from the fencing which became the first of many goat chases we would experience over the next several days.

I really thought because I had so much land with good forage they wouldn’t be tempted to leave but nope the baby immediately found a hole and the mama followed. Because the fields are a mixture of different types of fence, we quickly learned that any weakness would be exploited. We also learned that the baby can leap over a four-foot fence and the Mom might be small but she is strong! We would fix a weakness, and they would find another and it was especially bad in the evenings. Finally, I called Rob and he said he had fed them corn every evening. Deb told me that COB (or corn, oat, barley mixture) is like crack to them and out of desperation I had Lee buy some which calmed them down some. He also went around the property and collected all the heavy-duty cattle fence panels we had and created a much smaller space for them to be in.

Don’t get me wrong I really like the goats, but once they got in the neighbor’s woods and another time, they went all the way to the road. I had to stop traffic to get them back that time and since we have liability if they cause an accident, we knew we had to do something. The corn in the evenings is helping and we will see if the new fencing holds. The biggest problem I have left to solve is the gates which the baby can get through prettily easily. Since I am getting two more baby girls for my birthday (yes, I am a glutton for punishment) we need to be baby goat proofed as well. They are really cool though and Jack really likes the baby which is nice after the chicken craziness. Lee named Mom Edith and the baby Gloria by the way and they are both really sweet when they are not escaping.

Speaking of my garden it is doing great with beans, corn, peas, radishes, and carrots planted. I weed a little everyday and can’t wait for the crops to come in. I can feed any extras to either the chickens or the goats which is pretty cool. Next spring we will do much more but I am enjoying the cool weather crops.

The same day we got the goats Dede and Denny came down to visit and they really enjoyed all the improvements we have made. We had done a lot in the last couple of months but I think all we can see is what’s left to be done. Was nice to take a moment and just appreciate how far we have come.

A couple of other updates. I wanted Jack to see the goats but unfortunately he also slipped into the chicken pen again and now is in a major timeout. No more going to the animals unless he is on a leash and I have made my peace with the fact that he may never be able to be near the chickens. On the plus side I got my first egg! And I have gotten one egg a day for the last 5 days. The chickens are also foraging outside and have really settled in and I love going and seeing them every morning. Still haven’t finished the roost project but thats on the list.

Lastly despite trying different kinds of litter the dust in the litter was driving me crazy. Lee agreed to compromise and moved the litter box into the hall closet, and we have a small kitty door to provide access. Moxie is an absolute joy and is pretty adaptable which I appreciate. I am using a spray bottle to keep her off counters and tables. She has doubled in size and loves pouncing on the dog’s tail, but he is setting appropriate boundaries with her. We are all figuring it out, but I am so very happy, and Lee has worked so hard to make things work for me. I really love my little space we are creating here.

We very much appreciate your support of our blog.

  • You can purchase the ebook telling the story of how we became full-time RVers.
  • You can purchase our recipe book filled with 80 recipes we have cooked in our RV and taste tested by Lee himself. You can purchase the kindle or paperback version on Amazon or buy the Apple version on Itune

First Time Having Chickens

This is a long one ….Although I grew up in a small town and had a cousin my age who lived on a farm, personally I haven’t had much to do with chickens in my life. But every since we visited a sustainable farm in Wisconsin and ate some of their chickens and eggs I have been excited about the possibilities. I thought, “How hard can it be?” People in the poorest parts of the world raise chickens, and with all the resources at my fingertips it should be relatively easily.

Spoiler alert: it was NOT easy. Actually, it was one of the most humbling experiences I have had in a while. Honestly, I think I made almost every mistake I could have which goes to show you how adrenaline can really impact your judgment. As I tell the story I will share my mistakes in italics along the way. Many of these items (despite a fair amount of research) I didn’t know until after the fact but hopefully you can learn from my mistakes. If nothing else it will be entertaining although it certainly wasn’t for us at the time!

A lot of people online talk about the $3K egg, and there is a lot of truth to that. To get that first egg many people spend thousands on all the things they need. We spent more like $800 on everything we needed and I was really lucky because Lee built the coop, and we had existing fencing on the property that was already mostly what we needed, and the previous owners left behind a hefty supply of additional rolls of fencing and posts. The price of premade chicken coops is ridiculous and most of them are super small accommodating only a couple of birds. Thankfully I had an entire barn stall sitting empty and after researching extensively I saw a version where someone converted the stall into a coop. After some thought Lee agreed this was the best way to go and got to work. The pictures below were several days of HARD, sweaty work in above 90 temps and humidity over 85%. I think its beautiful, but of course Lee can only see the flaws, but no doubt it’s way better than any chicken coop I saw under $4K.

Chicken wire is NOT cheap by the way and a total bear to put up, especially overhead. You need to enclose the chickens completely though because predators will climb up and over. Side note we had read that chicken wire doesn’t always stop predators. Some will rip right through it. So all the work you see below was with the knowledge it might not be enough. I felt so bad for him the half day it took to put the overhead wire in and he had tons of nasty scratches from the wire before he was done. That’s true love!

The area that he spent the most time thinking through before building was the coops. The dimensions can vary depending on the size of the chicken you are going to get (we went with the larger 16″ square) and it was very important to him that I wouldn’t have to bend over to get eggs, so he went to extra trouble to build them high and put ledges and doors on them so I could access the eggs from outside the coop. Since this coop (which I bought for pretty cheap) was what I had initially in mind what I ended up with was a chicken coop palace in comparison.

What I bought online for $40 on sale versus what Lee made (see below).
Absolutely gorgeous work

It’s worth mentioning here that there is a TON of conflicting information about nesting boxes. No one can decide on whether chickens like sharing and the size and material are also up for debate. One woman swears that cat litter boxes are her chickens favorite while others are adamant about size and individual nests. WE decided to play it safe and make extra nesting boxes figuring if they shared we would be no worse off and it would give us room to expand later. I don’t regret the number of boxes but you will see below the placement was less than optimal.

While Lee was working on the coop I decided to take a shot at creating a dustbath and a homemade roost. In both cases my work was much less competent than his but I was super proud of myself when I finished my contributions.

So everything looks great right? Well, here’s what we learned later. Chickens will naturally sleep in the highest point of their pen and my roosting bar wasn’t even close. Actually, since Lee built the boxes so high they sleep in the boxes at night which is not great because then the boxes are full of poop every morning. In all the research I did on making roost I totally didn’t get that it had to be at the highest point. That meant that Lee had to go in after the fact and try to build a roost which would have worked much better if we had taken it into account from the beginning. He offered to rip out the top row of boxes but I said no way after he did all that work.

Another thing we didn’t really understand was how much poop the chickens would generate. Yes it all looks pretty but it’s also covered in poop which is why people are so careful about where they put their roosts. Several people we learned after the fact build a tray under the roost and fill it with kitty litter so the poop is easy to clean. There is a TON of contradictory information about how often the coops needs cleaned (from weekly to yearly yes, I am not kidding) and the poop bother Lee more than me. Probably because he spent so much time on it. Alot of the advice given is based on the size of the flock and type of chicken but the information is presented as generically applicable. Honestly getting chicken information is a lot like getting RV information with a lot of people thinking their way is the only way.

So we had the coop now we just needed chickens. Craigslist Farm And Garden section turned out to be the best place in our area to find livestock and after a lot of research I decided I wanted Golden Pullets. I found a guy who was selling 8 pullets (chickens that are 14 weeks old and just ready to start laying) for $100. Since I didn’t have a way to transport 8 chickens I said I would pay an additional $50 for him to bring them to me and we made arrangements for a Thursday.

I spent the next several days obsessively researching this particular kind of chicken in particular what the heck I was going to do with all the eggs. Initially I only wanted a few chickens, but these were a package deal and I went down the internet rathole of freezing, pickling, etc. I was so worried about excess eggs that after the guy blew me off on three separate delivery dates, I wasn’t that upset about walking away. Then on Saturday I found a couple with Rhode Island Reds which are very good foragers and common in Ohio. They were $25 each but it was worth the price, so Lee and I took an hour-long drive to go pick some out.

Turns out this was a good choice because the couple was extremely nice and the chickens were gorgeous. They had a huge flock and getting the chickens in hand was the hardest part which to be honest I was zero help. Lee stayed outside and took some pictures and video which are hysterical, but you stay calm when a chicken is flying at your face!

Victory!! Such a nice couple

We ended up with five chickens in three different cat carriers, a dozen eggs, and tons of great advice. Once we got them home we put them in the coop and let them acclimate a little bit. They seemed pretty friendly and pretty calm in the coop and I was happy things had gone so well.

I wish I could end the story here, I really do, but what happened next was sheer stupidity on our part, and probably chicken malpractice. Lee want to let them out in the yard to watch them forage and despite the advice of the lady we got them from we let them out. And they were fine scratching around in the yard until we decided that we wanted them to go back in. Turns out these chickens can really fly and they also run really fast. Not sure why I thought it would be different after my experience catching them initially, but we absolutely couldn’t get them to go back in. One got in a bush and absolutely wouldn’t come out so we got the bright idea to bring Jack out and see if he could flush him.

We think of Jack as a person most of the time, but when he saw the chicken he went absolutely crazy. Not only did he chase the chicken out of the bush but he also ripped its tail feathers out and chased another one all the way down the road. He only had a flea collar on when we let him out which ripped off in my hand when I tried to catch him. We were convinced he was going to kill one or all of the chickens and it was only dumb luck that stopped that from happening. At the end the dog was in the house and two of the chickens ran away. I was an absolute mess because it was totally our fault and I felt terrible about how stupid we had been. We also realized we were absolutely going to need a fence for them to roam in and free range was not as easy as it seemed.

Here’s the deal on free ranging. Most people buy chickens who are very young and so they grow up in the coop and then by the time you let them loose they know where the food is. These chickens were grown and we learned later it can take up to two weeks to acclimate to a new space. To be fair the woman told me that when I bought them but it was along with alot of other information and did not jive with my mental picture of how things would go.

The other thing about free range chicken is most people have large flocks and understand they will lose some to predators. Since we only had five, and expensive ones at that, I didn’t want to lose any unless I absolutely had to. I also live on the corner of two busy roads and chickens will run across them if allowed. No one knows why, people have been asking for hundreds of years. The woven livestock pasture fencing we have wasn’t enough to keep them out of the road and the last thing I wanted was to cause an accident.

So I had three chickens, a ton of guilt, and needed to get fencing up right away. I was on vacation that week but it was also super-hot so I went out on Monday (Lee was at work) and started using the fencing and snow fence we had laying around to put up some fence. I knew I wouldn’t get it completely done but thought I could start with existing fencing and had some success tying snow fence to it. I didn’t think it would keep predators out but it would keep chickens in and I felt pretty good about the progress I made. Honestly it helped me feel like I was taking control of the situation.

Unfortunately, I was so distracted as I was working through things that at some point I was in the garden and fell spraining my ankle and hitting the wood on a raised bed. I heard a loud crack and at first I thought I broke my ankle but ultimately it was a really bad sprain and nasty bruise. Lee came home to me with ice on my ankle, a partially finished fence and still three chickens.

Thankfully though he thought we could finish the fence and the next morning he woke up early to get started. He woke me up with the fantastic news that one of the chickens had “come back to the roost” and was standing outside the coop that morning talking to the other chickens. The chicken miracle got me motivated so I wrapped my ankle and hobbled out to help with the fence. We used a combination of plastic chicken fence (I bought from tractor supply) and various fencing and we finally got the fence done. It was alternately hot as heck or pouring down rain so we had to work around the elements. Also, we kept seeing the fifth chicken standing in our front yard but as soon as we got close to her she would run across the street into the huge soybean field. After one night of standing in the pouring rain, stopping traffic so she wouldn’t get run over, and this nice farm kid getting out of his truck in the pouring rain and trying to help me catch her I was like screw that chicken I am fine with four! Plus with the fence done we could at least open the door to the coop although the traumatized chickens wouldn’t come out very far unless pushed.

Right after the fence was done the fifth chicken finally came home. I can’t believe it lived for four whole days, but we found it under the raspberry bush in my garden. Of course, the fencing was up so it was much harder, but Lee and I held up towels and gently maneuvered it through the fences, around the barn and finally into the coop. Sucess and all my chickens had come home to roost! As a side note I now know where all these saying come from. Why did the chicken cross the road? To get away from the crazy lady who didn’t know what she was doing. Don’t count your chickens before they hatch…I get it! And many others.

At this point we just let the chickens chill for a week. The dog still goes nuts when he sees them, but Lee’s next project was to finish his fenced in back yard area which is now done. I also added a nylon net above part of their grounds to give them extra shade and predator bird protection, but they still don’t come out much. In all fairness it’s been super hot but I do see them being more active in the mornings and in the evenings. One note is that they can fly over the fence if they really want to but we have only seen that a couple of times and they are staying close now. Still no eggs but this breed doesn’t lay until 4 1/2 – 5 months and we are not quite there yet. Plus the heat and the stress will definitely delay egg laying. Also while they are growing back feathers (which Jack tore out) they often wont lay either. Honestly at this point I am just glad they are all alive and they are calming down. It’s not their fault I made their first days so stressful so I will take the eggs when and if they come!

To sum up I don’t regret getting them but the initial outlay is way more than we thought it would be. Still we have the infrastructure now and we can expand the flock as we desire. Or not..honestly five chickens at this point is more than a match for me 🙂 Oh and please be kind in your comments. I don’t think my fragile ego can take much more!!

We very much appreciate your support of our blog.

  • You can purchase the ebook telling the story of how we became full-time RVers.
  • You can purchase our recipe book filled with 80 recipes we have cooked in our RV and taste tested by Lee himself. You can purchase the kindle or paperback version on Amazon or buy the Apple version on Itune